Revamp of raiding

Nobody?

Member
Apr 18, 2020
40
3
8
As of now the raiding system is busted. There's a lot of problems in it right now that can make for some really stupid strategies and tactics that should not exist.

Big bombs:
Main problem with big bombs is that they cannot go through walls. For better or for worse, this should be reverted because big bomb damage can be completely negated by putting the center of a prop inside of a wall.

Second problem with big bombs is the defuse timer. For example, if a raider plants a bomb and then dies, they can come back (even from the distance from the neighborhood to town square) provided they have steroids. This means that even if a raider dies, their big bomb can be guaranteed to blow up even if they fuck up and die.

Third problem hard to explain. But, a big bomb can be held by just exisiting. If a defender tries to defuse, a raider can peek from behind a wall and shoot them while defusing either killing them or losing their defuse progress.

Suggested changes:
  1. Reduce defuse timer to 5 seconds or have a tool that makes defusing faster.
  2. If your halfway into defusing a bomb, you should keep the progress into defusing it. Maybe resetting the progress in 5 seconds or slowly deteriorating the progress when not defusing.
  3. Make big bombs attack through walls
  4. Decrease big bomb timer to 45 seconds
  5. Make big bombs forced to be planted on the ground and have a timer to plant.

Drugs:

The steroid drug is the worst part of most raids. It makes raiding completely stupid because precise aiming is not possible when people are running around 30 mph. It's simply not fun to fight someone unpredictably moving and spraying at 30mph. Anyone who has fought with or against steroids will know what I'm talking about.

With painkillers, adrenaline and max prestiege armor and health perks you can tank over 1000 damage. (300 armor + 450 health) / .7 (painkiller). Combine this with extremely high speed and the fighting becomes stupid. Even with rage which does +70% damage, it is still 600 damage to tank.

Suggested change:
  1. Nerf steroids to bring the player up to 125% speed so that it isn't too ridiculous.
  2. Nerf rage to do +35% damage
  3. Nerf painkillers to reduce damage to 15%
  4. Increase level and money requirement so you can't get them right off the bat
C4:

The timer is too long. 40 seconds for a crappy explosion is pretty bad.

Suggested change: Reduce explosion timer to 20 seconds, and reduce blast radius/damage to players


Prestiege perks:

Health perk increase health to 300, arnor perk increases armor to 300. This is 600 hp (hitpoints, dont @ me). By itself with no drugs this is already pretty stupid. 400 hp is already very tanky, 600 is crazy high.

Suggestion: These prestiege perks should be changed (along with raiding and defense perks) to not be as powerful. I would also suggest to reduce time to kill in general. For example, making the v2 health and armor dispensers only give you 150 health and armor respectively so that the max is 300 hp.

Armor, heavy armor:

Suggestion: Reduce armor to give 300 health and heavy armor to give 600 health. It is annoying to fight a turret with 2000 health especially when it is not in big bomb range. It is also annoying trying to destroy a prop with 2500 health (which can be made even more stupid with the prop health prestiege perk).

Respawn timers
Respawn timers for raiders and defenders should be 10 seconds regardless of karma. This way, if a defender dies then the base is vulnerable to blowtorching/ whatever. If a raider dies in a raid, then the defender can defuse a bomb. This way deaths are more important and can turn the tide of a raid.

Why big bombs NEED to blow up through walls

Capture.JPG

While this door may look fine, the fact that the center of the prop is above the ceiling means that you cannot blow up the prop at all using a big bomb. This means that the only way to destroy this prop is to use a blowtorch or spray it with a weapon.

Blowtorching this door is impractical because you would need to go right next to the door. Being right next to the door means that the raider is shootable and therefore dies or gets knocked back.
Shooting the door is also not possible since the max sustainable dps is 330 (xm8 magnum cmag), and the combined health of the props is 121000 hp (heavy armor or prestige perk) which would take 360 seconds if you hit all of your shots.

Therefore, this base is unraidable unless if the defender sleeps at the keyboard. For a setup this simple, it should not be unraidable. Worse off, there are multiple basing locations and props that are able to do this same thing so big bombs need to be addressed.
If big bombs were able to blow up through walls then this setup would not be unraidable. However, defuse times would need to be shortened so that it can be countered.
Changing map to downtown_altered would also make spamming bombs outside of a base less viable because nearly all lootrooms are located at the back of the building. If needed, bomb range through walls could be decreased if it becomes a problem again.
 
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haiku

V.I.P
Apr 9, 2020
27
1
8
The points you provided and the suggestions are great, I really like them.
Currently the raiding system is flawed and I completely agree with you on that part.
Everytime I get raided it's just someone with steroids spraying in even the direction of my head, hitting 4 shots on it, and it kills me because I'm low on drugs, they have rage, painkillers, healing and steroids, so each time I get them just slightly down on health, they run away, heal up, and kill me again.
I also just recently experienced how heavy armor and big bombs are stupid. It took 4 big bombs, 2 minutes of constant blowtorching on a max blowtorch, to not even completely destroy a door, since the big bombs didnt actually do damage, even though they were hugging the door.

This suggestion gets a phatass +1
 

Wolf_Gaming

Senior-Moderator
Staff-Member
Feb 15, 2020
68
2
8
15
Make big bombs attack through walls
This was a problem being raided. people would take advantage of this and spam them outside and not go through the actual base. This caused a lot of issues in the past.


Other than that I 100% agree on all of this.
If a door is placed just correctly then only a few props out of all of them take damage. which can be extremely broken. One of my doors is built like that and i can place 2 and a half of my door which makes it take about 7 big bombs to get through, Plus with having a 3k health door, it makes it op.


+1
 

Nobody?

Member
Apr 18, 2020
40
3
8
This was a problem being raided. people would take advantage of this and spam them outside and not go through the actual base. This caused a lot of issues in the past.


+1

This is true, but the problem wasn't that they could blow up through walls, but that they were uncounterable. If defusal times were decreased, it would allow a defender to defuse the bomb. Additionally, if someone defusing a bomb didn't lose progress/ lost progress slowly as soon as they were out of defusing range could finally put an end to the bs raids where a big bomb is guranteed to blow up just by stalling the defenders.
 

Wolf_Gaming

Senior-Moderator
Staff-Member
Feb 15, 2020
68
2
8
15
This is true, but the problem wasn't that they could blow up through walls, but that they were uncounterable
So as I said people spammed them outside and even abused by putting them in unreachable spots, and people would just sit outside defending the bombs. I do agree with making the defuse timer stay or go down slowly because 1 good shot or 1 mistake can mess you up.
 

haiku

V.I.P
Apr 9, 2020
27
1
8
This is true, but the problem wasn't that they could blow up through walls, but that they were uncounterable. If defusal times were decreased, it would allow a defender to defuse the bomb. Additionally, if someone defusing a bomb didn't lose progress/ lost progress slowly as soon as they were out of defusing range could finally put an end to the bs raids where a big bomb is guranteed to blow up just by stalling the defenders.
Making Big Bombs defusable through walls would solve the issue, but generate another issue, which is people will definetly abuse defusing big bombs in unknown places they can't be shot or are barely killable, so it basically does the exact same thing, but reversed. I would suggest a tool that lets you do this through walls, but you only move really slow holding it or it has a very short range, or a tool that lets you defuse big bombs really quick, but slows you down and doesnt go through walls.
 

Dorito DeVito

New member
Apr 15, 2020
3
1
3
I imagine the more complicated the approach, the greater chance for problems.

@Wolf_Gaming what type of unreachable spots would people place the bombs? Stick them high against walls?

What if bombs needed to be placed specifically against the ground when planted? A bomb placing time might also be effective as it would force the bomber into similar conditions the defuser would find themselves in. Additionally, the bomb could be forced to stay still while planting or the planting timer would reset. This way there could be no last minute gravgun/physics tricks.
 

Nobody?

Member
Apr 18, 2020
40
3
8
Making Big Bombs defusable through walls would solve the issue, but generate another issue, which is people will definetly abuse defusing big bombs in unknown places they can't be shot or are barely killable, so it basically does the exact same thing, but reversed. I would suggest a tool that lets you do this through walls, but you only move really slow holding it or it has a very short range, or a tool that lets you defuse big bombs really quick, but slows you down and doesnt go through walls.

I never said to make big bombs defusable through walls, and honestly sounds like a bad idea.

I imagine the more complicated the approach, the greater chance for problems.

@Wolf_Gaming what type of unreachable spots would people place the bombs? Stick them high against walls?

What if bombs needed to be placed specifically against the ground when planted? A bomb placing time might also be effective as it would force the bomber into similar conditions the defuser would find themselves in. Additionally, the bomb could be forced to stay still while planting or the planting timer would reset. This way there could be no last minute gravgun/physics tricks.

Yes, bombs should have a timer to plant so that you can't just run into turrets/ whatever and press E and kaboom.

Yes, People would put them in high up spots and basically have a guaranteed chance of the bomb blowing up.

If bombs were forced to be only planted on the ground then there would be very few problems - especially if the map was changed. If the range was also halved through walls it would make stupid doors like the one in OP not viable but you wouldn't be able to get printers through the side of a base.
 
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